Is mathematics necessary for programming

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I happened to debate with a friend during college days whether advanced mathematics is necessary for any veteran programmer  He used to argue fiercely against that  He said that programmers need only basic mathematical knowledge from high school or fresh year college math  no more no less  and that almost all of programming tasks can be achieved without even need for advanced math  He argued  however  that algorithms are fundamental  amp  must-have asset for programmers   My stance was that all computer science advances depended almost solely on mathematics advances  and therefore a thorough knowledge in mathematics would help programmers greatly when they re working with real-world challenging problems   I still cannot settle on which side of the arguments is correct  Could you tell us your stance  from your own experience

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Math is a toolbox for creating programs  I recommend Cormen s Introduction to Algorithms  It touches on the more  mathy  stuff   - Greatest lowest limit  managing resources   - Random variables  game programming  - Topological sort  adjusting spreadsheets  - Matrix operations  3d graphics  - Number theory  encryption  - Fast fourier transforms  networks

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You don t need to learn math for programming   But learning math trains you in thinking discipline  Therefore I would consider math to be good for the developers

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Maths is as much about a way of thinking as it is about the skills themselves   And even that lies on several levels   Someone else noted that the analytical and abstraction skills common to maths are valuable to programming and that is one level   I would also argue that there is another level which contains precise analogues that carry from one to the other - for example the set theory behind relational databases  which is all hidden by the SQL semantics   Very often the  best  - by which I mean most performant and concise - solutions are those which have a bit of maths behind them   If you start to think about your data-oriented programming problems as matrix manipulation  which many are  you can often find novel solutions form the world of maths   Obviously it is not necessary to be a maths expert in order to program  anyone can be taught  but it is one of the skills that is worth having - and looking for in recruits

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To answer your question as it was posed I would have to say   No  mathematics is not necessary for programming   However  as other people have suggested in this thread  I believe there is a correlation between understanding mathematics and being able to  think algorithmically   That is  to be able to think abstractly about quantity  processes  relationships and proof   I started programming when I was about 9 years old and it would be a stretch to say I had learnt much mathematics by that stage  However  with a bit of effort I was able to understand variables  for loops  goto statements  forgive me  I was Vic 20 BASIC and I hadn t read any Dijkstra yet  and basic co-ordinate geometry to put graphics on the screen   I eventually went on to complete an honours degree in Pure Mathematics with a minor in Computer Science  Although I focused mainly on analysis  I also studied quite a bit of discrete maths  number theory  logic and computability theory  Apart from being able to apply a few ideas from statistics  probability theory  vector analysis and linear algebra to programming  there was little maths I studied that was directly applicable to my programming during my undergraduate degree and the commercial and research programming I did afterwards   However  I strongly believe the formal methods of thinking that mathematics demands     careful reasoning  searching for counter-examples  building axiomatic foundations  spotting connections between concepts     has been a tremendous help when I have tackled large and complex programming projects    Consider the way athletes train for their sport  For example  footballers no doubt spend much of their training time on basic football skills  However  to improve their general fitness they might also spend time at the gym on bicycle or rowing machines  doing weights  etc    Studying mathematics can be likened to weight-training or cross-training to improve your mental strength and stamina for programming  It is absolutely essential that you practice your basic programming skills but studying mathematics is an incredible mental work-out that improves your core analytic ability

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It depends on what you do  Web developement  business software  etc  I think for this kind of stuff  you don t need math   If you want to do computer graphics  audio video processing  AI  cryptography  etc  then you need a math background  otherwise you can simply not do it

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You need math  Programming is nothing more than math  Any findings of theoretical physics does not become a practical applicable  implication  unless they are explained in terms of mathematical solutions  None of those can be solved computationally if they cannot be interpreted on computers  and more specifically on programming languages  Different languages are thus designed to solve specific problems  But for the general purpose and wide spread programming languages like java  c  c   much of our programming tasks involve repetitive continuous  solution to same problems like extracting values from database  text files  putting them on windows desktop  web   manipulating same values  sometimes accessing some data from similar devices but given different brand names  different port and a headache  etc which does not involve more than unitary method  and algebra counter  some logic   geometry graphics  etc  So it depends what you are trying to solve

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Statistical machine learning techniques are becoming increasingly important

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I have a degree in math  and I can t say it has helped me in any way   I develop general web apps  nothing scientific   I enjoy working with other developers with non-math degrees because they seem to think outside my  math  box and force me to do the same

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For your general GUI and Web applications only basic mathematics knowledge will ever be needed    Once a lifetime you might have an odd project where you need calculus or linear algebra    If you do 3D game programming or some other specific field of programming  you might need it everyday thou

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Mathematical knowledge is often useful to a programmer  as are graphic design skill  puzzle-solving ability  work ethic and a host of other skills and traits   Very few programmers are good at everything that a programmer can possibly be good at   I wouldn t agree with any statement of the form  you re not a real programmer unless you can  insert favorite programming ability here     But I would be wary of a programmer who couldn t do Math   More so than of one who couldn t draw

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To answer your question as it was posed I would have to say   No  mathematics is not necessary for programming   However  as other people have suggested in this thread  I believe there is a correlation between understanding mathematics and being able to  think algorithmically   That is  to be able to think abstractly about quantity  processes  relationships and proof   I started programming when I was about 9 years old and it would be a stretch to say I had learnt much mathematics by that stage  However  with a bit of effort I was able to understand variables  for loops  goto statements  forgive me  I was Vic 20 BASIC and I hadn t read any Dijkstra yet  and basic co-ordinate geometry to put graphics on the screen   I eventually went on to complete an honours degree in Pure Mathematics with a minor in Computer Science  Although I focused mainly on analysis  I also studied quite a bit of discrete maths  number theory  logic and computability theory  Apart from being able to apply a few ideas from statistics  probability theory  vector analysis and linear algebra to programming  there was little maths I studied that was directly applicable to my programming during my undergraduate degree and the commercial and research programming I did afterwards   However  I strongly believe the formal methods of thinking that mathematics demands     careful reasoning  searching for counter-examples  building axiomatic foundations  spotting connections between concepts     has been a tremendous help when I have tackled large and complex programming projects    Consider the way athletes train for their sport  For example  footballers no doubt spend much of their training time on basic football skills  However  to improve their general fitness they might also spend time at the gym on bicycle or rowing machines  doing weights  etc    Studying mathematics can be likened to weight-training or cross-training to improve your mental strength and stamina for programming  It is absolutely essential that you practice your basic programming skills but studying mathematics is an incredible mental work-out that improves your core analytic ability

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Well you generated a number of responses  and no I did not read them all   I am in the middle on this  no you certainly do not need math in order to be a programmer   Assembler vs device drivers in linux are no more or less complicated than the other and neither require math     In no way shape or form do you need to take or pass a math class for any of this    I will agree that the problem solving mindset for programming is quite similar to that of math solutions  and as a result math probably comes easily   or the contrary if math is hard then programming may be hard   A class or a degree or any pieces of paper or trophies are not required  going off and learning stuff  sure   Now if you cannot convert from hex to binary to decimal quickly either in your head  on paper  or using a calculator you are going to struggle   If you want to get into networking and other things that involve timing  which kernel drivers often do but dont have to   You are going to struggle   I know of a very long list of people with math degrees and or computer science  and or engineering degrees that struggle with the rate calculations  bits per second  bytes per second  how much memory you need to do something  etc   To some extent it may be considered some sort of knack that some have and others have to work toward   My bottom line is I believe in will power  if you want to learn this stuff you can and will  it is as simple as that   You dont need to take a class or spend a lot of money  linux and qemu for example can keep you busy for quite some time  different asm langauges  etc   crashable environments for kernel development  embedded  etc   You are not limited to that  but I dont believe that you have to run off and take any classes if you dont want to   If you want to then sure take some ee classes  some cs classes and some math classes

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Learning higher math  for most programmers  is important simply because it bends your brain to think logically  in a step-by-step manner to get from one thing to another   Very few programming jobs  though  require anything above high school math  I ve used linear algebra once  I ve never used calculus  I use algebra every day

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Two things come to mind    Context is all-important  If you re a games programmer or in an engineering discipline  then math may be vital for your job  I do database and web development  therefore high school-level math is fine for me  You are very likely to be reusing someone else s pre-built math code rather than reinventing the wheel  especially in fields like encryption and compression   This may also apply if you re in games development using a third party physics tool or a 3D engine   Having a framework of tried and tested routines for use in your programs prevents errors and potential security weaknesses - definitely a good thing

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Two things come to mind    Context is all-important  If you re a games programmer or in an engineering discipline  then math may be vital for your job  I do database and web development  therefore high school-level math is fine for me  You are very likely to be reusing someone else s pre-built math code rather than reinventing the wheel  especially in fields like encryption and compression   This may also apply if you re in games development using a third party physics tool or a 3D engine   Having a framework of tried and tested routines for use in your programs prevents errors and potential security weaknesses - definitely a good thing

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It depends on what you do  Web developement  business software  etc  I think for this kind of stuff  you don t need math   If you want to do computer graphics  audio video processing  AI  cryptography  etc  then you need a math background  otherwise you can simply not do it

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computer science    programming  OK  seriously  I know good and bad programmers who were English and Psychology majors and some that were Computer Science majors   Some very famous guys that I admire as developers didn t have a CS background   Larry Wall Perl   for example  was a linguist  On the other hand  it helps to know something about the domain you are working on because then you can at least see if your data makes sense and help your customer users drill down to what they really want  And yes  there s the issue of computational complexity and efficient data structures and program correctness   That s stuff you learn in Computer Science and that s useful to know in almost any domain  but it s neither necessary nor sufficient

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There are some good points to this question in my opinion   As David Nehme posted here  computer science and programming are two very different subjects   I find it perfectly possible that a programmer with very basic high-school and early college math skills may be a competent programmer  Not so sure about the computer science graduate  though   As you correctly pointed out  the algorithm creation process is very much related to how you crunch math  Even if this is just a result of the type of mathmatical and analytical process you must accomplish to correctly design an algorithm   I also think it very much depends on what you re doing  more than it depends on your job description or skills  For instance  if the programming and math are both tools to produce some effect  than you surely have to be competent with both  i e   you are making a modelization programme for some purpose   Although  if the programming is the ultimate objective of your activity  than math is most probably not required   i e   you are making a web application

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I don t think that higher math is a requirement for being a good programmer - as always it depends on what you are coding   Of course if you are in 3D graphics programming  you ll need matrices and stuff  As author of business software  you ll probably need statistics math   But being a professional programmer for almost 10 years  and another 10 years amateur   higher math  is not something that I needed regularily  In about 99 8  of all cases it s just plus  minus  division and multiplication in some intelligent combinations - in most cases it s about algorithms  not math

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I ll go against the grain here and say  Yes   I switch from Civil Engineering to programming  Concrete Sucks     My math background consists of the usual first year stuff  second and third year Calculus Diff EQ  volume integrations  Series  Fourier and Laplace transforms  and a Numerical Analysis course   I find that my math is incredibly lacking for computer programming   There are entire areas of Discrete math and logic that I am missing  and I only survive due to an extensive library of textbooks  Wikipedia and Wolfram   Most advanced algorithms are based on advanced math  and I am unable to develop advanced algorithms without doing extensive research  Essentially the equivalent to a half-course worth of work   I am certainly unable to come up with NEW algorithms  as I just don t have the mathematical foundations as the shoulders of giants upon which to stand

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It depends on what you are doing  If you do a lot of 3D programming  knowledge of 3D geometry is certainly necessary  don t you agree   -  If you want to create a new image format like JPG or a new audio format like MP3  you are also pretty lost if you can t understand a cosine or fourier transformation  as these are the basics most lossy compression are based on  Many other problems can be resolved better if you know your math rather well   There are also many other programming tasks you will find do not need much math

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My response is absolutely not  I was am  now unemloyed  thanks India  a computer programmer for 25  year  And  in my whole career I NEVER encountered program LOGIC that required more than basic math skills   Unless you work with math everyday that exceeds basic math skills  the need for advanced math is nill   At the corporate level any complex math WILL be referred to a statician or mathematicain  who will provide the programmer with the necessary pseudo code  and both will collaborate in the thorough testing of the end product   Ultimately the ball is in the math nerd s court  At any level unless you re a mathmetician statician senior programmer the thought of having a programmer responsible for the expected results of a complex advanced math computer program is absurd  and very foolhardy

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Nope  don t need math   Haven t done any since I graduated  and probably forgotten what little calculus I mastered anyway   Think of it like a car   How much math physics do you think is behind things like traction control and ABS braking   Lots   How much math do you need to know to use those tools   None   EDIT  One thing to add   Industry is probably important here   A programmer working at a research firm  or writing embedded traction control systems for that car  is probably far more likely to need math than your average business tool programmer

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Systems programming is not rocket science  -  IMHO  any good programmer can approach system programming  However  one need to know   Algorithms  this requires little   math  but not too much to scare a good programmer     Data structures  and Some  not all  domain knowledge e g  OS  Architecture  Compilers    I think the most sought after qualities would be to write precise code and ability go in depth  if required  in any of the above items   BTW  this is my personal theory  YMMV  I don t consider myself a good programmer yet   -

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To answer the question  no   Mathematical talent and programming talent  strong correlation  little to no causality     One is certainly not a prerequisite for the other  and beefing up your math skills isn t going to make you a better programmer unless you re programming in one of the specialized domains where math is pretty integral  3D graphics  statistics programming  etc    That said  of course a math background will certainly not hurt and will greatly help you in some cases   And as others have noted the thought processes involved in mathematics and programming are quite similar  if you have an talent for one you ll probably find you have a talent for the other   If I was going to recommend a math requirement for programmers it d be some basic statistics   Nearly all programming jobs require a little reporting of some sort   The need for mathematics does increase a little as you start to do more of the advanced and or fun stuff   Games are pretty math-heavy  so are performance-critical applications where you really need to understand the costs of different algorithms

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This is a good answer you don t need to know maths  hell I never go outside basic The Order of Operations  PEMDAS math  haha  yet I always arrive at a solution  SURE back in 1970 s math would of been extremely important to programmers who attempted to program for cpu cycle efficiently using very complex mathematical equations to avoid loops and such   Now computers are powerful a loop to 100 or so to avoid using complex math won t really hurt your program in the long run  but of course you will pickup mathematical skills as a observer without even learning math haha which will improve your efficient programming abilities    Lets face it the more math you know the more likely you will not only optimize a program better  but you will understand whats possible to program and whats impossible without reading about articles which state thats impossible  because of this crazy mathematical equation   Learning math can help you go towards understanding how things work without actual EXPERIENCE    I base this on my life    Here is my example  some compression article   I kept trying and trying without understanding the math behind it   from atleast 700  flawed   failed attempts I now know more of whats possible to do  which may fail again  and also know the 700 flawed ways of looking at it   If I probably knew math I wouldn t even try those 700 flawed attempts probably due to knowing too much math  But the path I picked without knowing that much math I find much more fun and more educational to me   But thats just me   I am always the hands on person   not the book worm     Some lead to new mathematical breakthroughs others just lead to faster better optimized software   Let this be a lesson to you guys pick your path whichever works best for you trust me both are rewarding

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Business programming  arithmetic  some algebra  Engineering  numerical analysis  Scientific programming  the sky s the limit

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Necessary    Sufficient  Come on guys  the title says  necessary   I would argue that it is at best a sufficient condition to be able to program well   Just like their are many sufficient but not necessary conditions  5 yrs experience  a CS Degree  or any scientific background   Some could even argue that being a Poet or English major could make you a good API designer or that an Artist could be good at UI Web programming     But these are obviously not guarantees  just like knowing math may not make you a good programmer  but you could hack out some C   or F  like the rest anyway

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You don t need much math  Some combinatorial thinking can help you frame and reduce a problem for fast execution  Being able to multiply is good  You re an engineer  approximations are fine

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Yeah  there is no need for advanced mathematics - if you are programming commercial - off the shelf software    However when dealing with hardcore stuff such as    Calculating trajectories to control a robot Creating AI-like applications to support uncertainty and automatic reasoning Playing with 3-D motion and graphics   Some advanced mathematics knowledge might come in handy  And it s not like they are  out-of-this world  problems    I had to create a software to try to  predict  the necessary amount of paper for an office  and it was hell just to find out the best way to approximate values    You have to be careful  though  because it is easy to get lost when using advanced things - there is a friend of mine who resorted to using Turing to store the state of a dynamic menu just to display it correctly - humm    perhaps he wnet too far in his imagination

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See this earlier post

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I used a great deal of math when I was solving problems in solid mechanics and heat transfer using computers   Linear algebra  numerical methods  etc   I never tap into any of that knowledge now that I m writing business applications that deliver information from relational databases to web-based user interfaces   I still would recommend a better math background to anyone   Discrete math is very helpful to a developer  I have no formal training in it   I think the techniques laid out in  Programming Collective Intelligence  are far from the stuff I did as an ME and could fall into the business apps that I m doing now   Netflix has certainly made a nice business out of it   This group intelligence stuff appears to be on the rise

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In some programming I imagine that math would be most helpful  but not to be a programmer  I m lucky if I can add 2 2 without my handy dandy calculator

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I began programming about the same time I entered my pre-algebra class   So I wouldn t say math is all that important  though it can help in certain types of programming  especially functional    I haven t taken Discrete Math yet  but I see a lot of theory stuff with programming written in a math-notation that is taught in this class    Also  make sure you know how to calculate anything in any base  especially base 2  8  and 16    Also  one class that really brought home some concepts for me was this pre-programming class  We got taught unions  intersections  and all that happy stuff and It almost exactly parallels bitwise math  And we covered boolean logic very heavily  What I considered the most useful was when we learned how to reduce complex boolean statements  This was very handy    x y   amp   x z   amp   x foo    can be simplified to  x    y  amp  z  amp  foo    Which I previously did not quite grasp

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I have two math degrees  I wish I knew more about databases    My point is  while being able to find the roots of a polynomial or being able to prove that sqrt 2  is irrational is useful in an abstract sense but won t necessarily make you a better programmer

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To answer the question  no   Mathematical talent and programming talent  strong correlation  little to no causality     One is certainly not a prerequisite for the other  and beefing up your math skills isn t going to make you a better programmer unless you re programming in one of the specialized domains where math is pretty integral  3D graphics  statistics programming  etc    That said  of course a math background will certainly not hurt and will greatly help you in some cases   And as others have noted the thought processes involved in mathematics and programming are quite similar  if you have an talent for one you ll probably find you have a talent for the other   If I was going to recommend a math requirement for programmers it d be some basic statistics   Nearly all programming jobs require a little reporting of some sort   The need for mathematics does increase a little as you start to do more of the advanced and or fun stuff   Games are pretty math-heavy  so are performance-critical applications where you really need to understand the costs of different algorithms

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Certian kinds of math I think are indispensible  For instance  every software engineer should know and understand De Morgan s laws  and O notation   Other kinds are just very useful  In simulation we often have to do a lot of physics modeling  If you are doing graphics work  you will often find yourself needing to write coordinate transformation algorithms  I ve had many other situations in my 20 year career where I needed to write up and solve simultanious linear equations to figure out what constants to put into an algorithm

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Of course it depends on what kind of programmer you want to be  or better what kind of programmer your employers want you to be  I think calculus and algebra are essentials  statistic and linear programming is indeed a good tool to have in your briefcase  maybe analysis  derivative  integrals  functions     could be done without  But if you want to know how things work skin-deep  electronics  for example  or some non trivial algorhytms   advanced  math is something you d better not go without anywhere

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Programming is a tool of computer science   In many area s of programming  math is in the back seat  If you don t know how to quick sort  download a module to do it for you  You don t understand elliptical curves  no problem  buy an AES encryption module     Now for computer science  Yes  you need higher level math  No doubt about it  Cryptography  operating systems  compiler construction  machine learning  programming languages  and so on all require some form of higher math  calculus  discrete  linear  complex  to fully understand

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I feel this question  which I get quite a bit  is best answered with an analogy   Many of us lift weights  Why  Is it because we re preparing for that day when we become a professional weightlifter  Will we ever encounter the lifting of weights as a job requirement   Of course not  We lift weights because it exercises our muscles  It keeps us fit and in shape  A fit person will perform better in other areas  hiking  construction  running  sleeping  etc   Learning mathematics is like weightlifting for the brain  It exercises the mind and keeps it in shape  You may never use calculus in your career  but your brain will be in better shape because of it

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I used a great deal of math when I was solving problems in solid mechanics and heat transfer using computers   Linear algebra  numerical methods  etc   I never tap into any of that knowledge now that I m writing business applications that deliver information from relational databases to web-based user interfaces   I still would recommend a better math background to anyone   Discrete math is very helpful to a developer  I have no formal training in it   I think the techniques laid out in  Programming Collective Intelligence  are far from the stuff I did as an ME and could fall into the business apps that I m doing now   Netflix has certainly made a nice business out of it   This group intelligence stuff appears to be on the rise

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See also Is Programmng    Math  from stackoverflow    While I don t think it s required for programming  I can t tell you how many times I ve been able to use linear algebra concepts to write a clear and short solution to replace a convoluted  and sometimes incorrect  one   When dong any graphics or geometry  and even some solver  work  knowledge of matrices and how to work with them has also been extremely useful

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IMO  you probably need an aptitude for mathematics  without necessarily having much knowledge in the field  So the things you require to be good at maths are similar to the things you require to be good at programming    But in general  I can t remember the last time I used any sort of advanced maths in day-to-day programming  so no

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What type of programming   In my commercial experience  I have needed no advanced mathematics  but this is heavily dependent on the field you are in   Computer graphics require a large amount of advanced mathematics  A lot of academic computer programming requires advanced mathematics   So saying there tends to be a correlation between people who are good at mathematics and people who are good at programming   I hope this wishy-washy answer helps

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To do what you want  you do not have to know math  but you have to like it a lot

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While advanced mathematics may not be required for programming  unless you are programming advanced mathematics capability  the thought process of programming and mathematics are very similar  You begin with a base of known things  axioms  previously proven theories  and try to get to someplace new  You cannot skip steps  If you do skip steps  then you are required to fill in the blanks  It s a critical thought process that makes the two incredibly similar   Also  mathematicians and programmers both think critically in the abstract  Real world things are represented by objects and variables  The ability to translate from concrete to abstract also links the two fields   There s a very good chance that if you re good at one  you will probably be good at the other

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I have a degree in math  and I can t say it has helped me in any way   I develop general web apps  nothing scientific   I enjoy working with other developers with non-math degrees because they seem to think outside my  math  box and force me to do the same

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I have a maths degree  but I can t remember requiring that maths a single time in my career  It was useful in terms of training my mind for logical thinking  but I ve not written any code using fluid dynamics  quantum theory or Markov Chains   The last is the most likely to come up  I suspect    Most line-of-business developers won t need advanced maths most of the time  Sometimes knowing trigonometry can help  and certainly being able to understand enough maths to implement algorithms described mathematically can be important - but beyond that  Nah   Don t forget that most programmers aren t advancing computer science - they re building applications  I don t need to know advanced engineering to drive a modern car  even though that car has almost certainly been improved through advanced engineering

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I dont think advanced mathemetics knowledge is a requirement for a good programmer  but based on personal experience I think that programmers who have a better grasp at advanced maths also make better programmers  This may simply be due to a more logical mind  or a more logical outlook due to their experiences of solving mathematical problems

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I work as a game programmer  in a team with artists  game designers  level designers  etc   Having someone on the team who knows some maths is a net plus  just as it is a plus to have someone who plays all kinds of games  someone who se a representative member of our target audience  someone who lived through some painful productions  etc   Often  the ones who know the most maths will be programmers  sometimes game designers   because the domains are close enough  But  day to day  game programmers don t need much maths beyond 3D geometry and  sometimes  physics   Among the maths I studied  I found statistics the most useful  though I sometimes find myself missing some concepts

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I think for tasks you described not too much math is needed  but generally i think for real advanced system programming you    Don t need calculus at all Need good undestanding of computer internals Need CS a LOT and OS theory Need Discrete math  incl  algorythms and combinatorics

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I think it really depends on what you re trying to do  but IMHO  the CS and OS theory are more important than math here  and you really need only the math that they involve   For example  there s a lot of CS background of scheduling theory and optimization that stands behind many schedulers in modern OSs  That is an example of something that would require some math  though not something super complicated    But honestly  for most stuff  you don t need math  What you need is to learn the ability to think in base 2 and 16  such as the ability to mentally OR AND  For example  if you have a byte and within that byte there are two 3-bit fields and 2 wasted bits  knowing which bits are in which fields are active when the byte value is something like 11 will make things slightly faster than having to use pen and paper

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If you need advanced mathematics in your daily job as programmer really depends on your tasks  I need them  The reason is I have to work with hydraulic calculations for piping systems to evaluate in code the piping system before it gets built  You never want to stand near a collapsing piping system because of under or overpressure      I guess for many other kinds of  simulations of the real world  you will need advanced mathematics too

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Depends on the programming task   I would put  take data from a database and display it on a website  style programming towards the not-so-much side and then  video games  on the other side  i work in games and I feel like I use some random different flavor of math every day  and would probably use more if i knew more

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In my experience the Math requirement for a Computer Science degree exists simply to weed out those who will fail   If you cannot pass Calculus I and II you will most definitely not pass an advanced course on compiler construction  database or operating systems theory

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Programming requires you to master  or at least learn  two subjects  Programming itself and what ever domain your program is for  If you are writing accounting software  you need to learn accounting  if you are programming robot kinematics  then you need to understand forward and reverse kinematics  Account might only take basic math skills  other domains take other types of math

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I would argue that having advanced logic  discrete  math can really help   That along with set theory   When dealing with common computer programs  these disciplines can help a lot   However  a lot of the other math I took in university was calculus  which as far as I can see  had very limited usage   Since 90   or something like that  of programming is doing business apps with very simple math  I would say that for the most part  you can get by with very little math knowledge  However   a good understanding of boolean algebra  logic  discrete math  and set theory can really put you up to that next level

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I agree with Chris   I would say  Yes   also   But this depends on your market as stated above   If you are simply creating some basic  off-the-shelf  applications or writing tools to help your everyday work   then math isn t nearly as important   Engineering custom software solutions requires lots of problem solving and critical thinking   Skills that are most definitely enhanced when a mathematics background is present   I minored in Math with my Computer Engineering degree and I give credit to all of my math-oriented background as to why I m where I am today   That s my 2 cents  I can tell from reading above that many would not agree   I encourage all to consider that I m not saying you can t have those skills without a math background  I m simply stating that the skills are side-effects of having such a background and can impact software positively

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In my experience math is required in programming  you can t get away from it   The whole of programming is based on math   The issue is not black and white  but more colorful   The question is not whether or not you need math  but how much   The higher levels of math will give you more tools and open up your mind to different paths of though   For example  you can program if you only known addition and subtraction   When multiplication is required  you will have to perform a lot of additions   Multiplication simplifies repetitive additions   Algebra allows one to simplify math before implementing it into programs   Linear Algebra provides tools for transforming images   Boolean Algebra provides mechanics for reducing all those if statements     And don t forget the sibling to mathematics  Logic and Philosophy   Logic will help you make efficient use of case or switch statements   Philosophy will help you understand the thinking of the guy who wrote that code you are modifying   Yes  you don t need much math to write programs   Some programs may require more math than others   More math knowledge will give you an advantage over those who have lesser understanding   In these times  people need every advantage they can get to obtain those jobs

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It s not required by a long shot  but     As a trivial example--Without an understanding of geometry  you couldn t do a lot of stuff with squares and rectangles   Every programmer has gets geometry  so it s just an example    Without trigonometry  there are certain things that are tough to do  Try to draw an analog clock with no understanding of trigonometry -- you can do it  but the process you have to go through is essentially re-inventing trigonometry   Calculus is interesting  You ll probably never need it unless you design games  but calculus teaches you how to model things that act much more  Real world   For instance  if you try to model a tree falling  to get the speed right at every point along the arch you probably need a good deal of math   On the other hand  it s just a matter of being exact  Anything you can do with calculus you can probably do with looping and approximations   Beyond that  to make things even more life-like  you will probably need fractals and more advanced math   If you are programming web sites and databases  you hardly need algebra 101

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It s important to keep perspective   Learning math  advanced math  calc  etc  is great for thought processes and many programming positions expect and may make use of math and math concepts   But many programming jobs use little to no math at all   Computer science  being a math discipline  of course requires lots of math   But few programming jobs are derivatives of comp sci   CS is a very specific discipline   There is a reason why IT schools now have Software Engineering as a separate discipline from CS   They are very different fields   Comp Sci  for example  does not prepare you well for the world of most web applications   And software engineering does not prepare you well for compiler design and kernel development

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Discrete math I found very helpful  I took Calculus  and there are some times it might have been very helpful too  but I don t remember any of it  For instance  the time I was trying to implement a DIS interface  which deals with things like rotational velocities and coordinate transformations   I spent a day driving all over town looking for a book to explain quaternions to me  this was pre-WWW   There was also a time I ended up needing to write a facility for some engineers to impliment n-linear interpolation  If you have no clue what that means  believe me I didn t either  Fortuntely  that was post-WWW   My advice is to not sweat it  You may be hamstrung on a project or two  but not all that badly these days

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Someone with a solid mathematical  which is not merely arithmetic  or logic background will cope well with algorithms  variable use  conditional reasoning and data structures     Not everyone can design a UI   Not everyone can make efficient code   Not everyone can comment and document clearly   Not everyone can do a good algorithm    Mathematics will help you to a point  but only to a point

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Most of the programming I have done involved physics simulations for research including things like electromagnetism  quantum mechanics and structural mechanics   Since the problem domains have advanced mathematics associated with them I would be hard pressed to solve them without using advanced mathematics   So the answer to your question is - it depends on what you are trying to do

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As a self taught programmer who started working on games about 30 years ago I would definitely say you need to get as much math as you can  Things like matrices  quaternions  ray tracing  particle systems  physics engines and such do require a good level of math comprehension and I only wish that I had learned all those things much earlier

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No  you don t need to know any math  except maybe binary oct hex dec representations  for system programming and stuff like that

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Advanced maths knowledge is vital if you re going to be writing a new programming language  Or you need write your own algorithms   However  for most day-to-day programming - from websites to insurance processing applications - only basic maths are necessary

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I ve been programming for 8 years professionally  and since I was 12 as a hobby   Math is not necessary  logic is  Math is horribly helpful though  to say it s not necessary is like saying that to kill a man  a gun isn t necessary  you can use a knife  Well  it is true  but that gun makes it a lot easier   There are a couple bare minimums  which you should already meet  You need to know basic algebraic expressions and notation  and the common computer equivalents  For example  you need to know what an exponential is  3 to the 3rd is 27   and the common computer expression is 3 3  The common notations for algebra does change between languages  but many of them use a somewhat unified methodology  Others  looking at you LISP  don t  You also need to know order of operations   You need to understand algorithmic thought  First this  then this  produces this which is used in this calculation  Chances are you understand this or you don t  and it s a fairly hard hurdle to jump if you don t understand it  I ve found that this is something you  get   and not really something you can learn  Conversely  some people don t  get  art  They should not become painters  Also  there have been students in CS curriculum who cannot figure out why this does not work   x   z   w   z   3   y   5  It s not that they don t understand addition  it s that they aren t grasping the requirement of unambiguous express  If they understand it  the computer should too  right  If you can t see what s wrong with the above three lines  then don t become a programmer   Lastly  you need to know whatever math is under your domain of programming  Accounting software could stop at basic algebra  If you are programming physics  you ll need to know physics  loosely  and math in 3-dimensional geometry  Euclidean   If you re programming architecture software  you ll need to know trigonometry   This goes farther then math though  whatever domain you are programming for  you need to soundly understand the basics  If you are programming language analysis software  you ll need to know probability  statistics  grammar theory  multiple languages   etc   Often times  certain domains need  or can benefit from  knowledge you d think is unrelated  For example  if you were programming audio software  you actually need to know trigonometry to deal with waveforms   Magnitude changes things also  If you are sorting a financial data set of 1000 items  it s no big thing  If it was 10 million records  however  you would benefit greatly from knowing vector math actually  and having a deep understanding of sorting at the binary level  how does a system sort alphabetically  How does it know  a  is less than  b     You are going to find that as a programmer  your general knowledge base is going to explode  because each project will necessitate more learning outside of the direct sphere of programming  If you are squeamish or lazy about self-learning  and do not like the idea of spending 10  hours a week doing essentially  homework   do not become a programmer   If you like thought exercises  if you like learning  if you can think about abstract things like math without a calculator or design without a sketchpad  if you have broad tastes in life and hobbies  if you are self-critical and can throw away  favorited  ideas  if you like perfecting things  then become a programmer  Do not base this decision on math  but rather  the ability to think logically and learn  Those are what is important  math is just the by-product

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Mathematics are needed for developers in some fields but are almost useless in others   If you are a game developer and have to work with physics a lot - understanding of math is crucial  If you are working with advanced visual controls - you could not do much without geometry  If you re planning to do some financial calculations - it would REALLY help to have solid knowledge of statistics   On the other hand over last 5 years I had only 2 or 3 projects where ANY amount of math was required at all  Of these there was only 1 occurrence when a Google search did not help   At the end of the day even financial calculations are very often something your clients do for you and give you formulas to implement   So if you re in  applied software  business you are likely to never use your math degree  If you re in academic software maths are crucial

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About the only useful things you can learn at university are theoretical

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I guess I am going to be the first person to say you do need math  As others have said math is not all that important for certain aspects of development  but the fundamentals of critical thinking and structured analysis are very important   More so  math is important in understanding a lot of the fundamentals that go into things like schedulers  optimizations  sorting  protocol management  and a number of other aspects of computers  Though the math involved from a calculation level is not complex  its mostly High school algebra  the theories and applications can be quite complex as a solid understanding of math through calculus will be of great benefit   Can you get by without it  absolutely  and you shouldnt let a less then thorough knowledge of math hold you back  but if you had the chance  or the inclination I would study as much math as you could  calculus  numeric theory  linear algebra  combinatorics  practical applications  all of it has both practical and theoretical applications in a wide range of computer science   I have known people who were highly successful on both sides of the fence  those without a strong focus on math  and those who went to school for physics or math   but in both groups they enjoyed numerical problems and learning about algorithms and math theory

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I m going to sit right on the fence with you here    there are a lot of good arguments both for and against  and all of most of them equally valid   So which is the right answer     Both   depending on the situation   This isn t a case of  if you re not with us  you re against us    There are many aspects of math that do make areas of programming much easier  geometry  algebra  trigonometry  linear equations  quadratic equations  derivatives etc   In fact a lot of the highest performance  algorithms  have mathematical principles at their heart   As Jon pointed out  he s got a degree in maths but in the programming world he barely uses that knowledge   I propose that he does use maths far more than he probably considers  albeit unconsiously   okay  maybe not quantum mechanics  but the more basic principles   Every time we lay out a GUI we use mathematical principles to design in an aesthetically pleasing manner  we don t do that consciously - but we do do it   In the business world  we rarely think about the maths we use in our software - and in a lot of aspects of the software we write  it s just standard algorithms to complete the same monotonous tasks to help the business world catch up with the technology that s available   It would be quite easy to skip through a whole career without ever consciously using math in our software   However  having an understanding of maths helps make many aspects of programming simpler   I think the question really boils down to   Is advanced math necessary for programming   and of course  to that question the answer is no    unless you re going to start getting into writing and or cracking encryption algorithms  which is a fascinating subject  or working with hydraulic equations as Mil pointed out or flow control systems  as I have in the past    But I would have add that while basic math may not be necessary  it will make your life a lot easier

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At the university we read the book  Concrete Mathematics  by Knuth  Graham and Patashnik  This is a math book with topics selected for computer science students  Several year later  I checked the book again and noticed that I ve used every single topic in the book at least once  with the exception of Stirling numbers    In most cases knowing some math helps to solve problems with less work  more elegant or to implement faster solutions  It also depends on the kind of work you are doing  I e  math is more important when you concentrate on algorithms  than when you concentrate on engineering problems

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I m going to sit right on the fence with you here    there are a lot of good arguments both for and against  and all of most of them equally valid   So which is the right answer     Both   depending on the situation   This isn t a case of  if you re not with us  you re against us    There are many aspects of math that do make areas of programming much easier  geometry  algebra  trigonometry  linear equations  quadratic equations  derivatives etc   In fact a lot of the highest performance  algorithms  have mathematical principles at their heart   As Jon pointed out  he s got a degree in maths but in the programming world he barely uses that knowledge   I propose that he does use maths far more than he probably considers  albeit unconsiously   okay  maybe not quantum mechanics  but the more basic principles   Every time we lay out a GUI we use mathematical principles to design in an aesthetically pleasing manner  we don t do that consciously - but we do do it   In the business world  we rarely think about the maths we use in our software - and in a lot of aspects of the software we write  it s just standard algorithms to complete the same monotonous tasks to help the business world catch up with the technology that s available   It would be quite easy to skip through a whole career without ever consciously using math in our software   However  having an understanding of maths helps make many aspects of programming simpler   I think the question really boils down to   Is advanced math necessary for programming   and of course  to that question the answer is no    unless you re going to start getting into writing and or cracking encryption algorithms  which is a fascinating subject  or working with hydraulic equations as Mil pointed out or flow control systems  as I have in the past    But I would have add that while basic math may not be necessary  it will make your life a lot easier

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I admit that I have never used any advanced math in programming except in some pet projects that are about math topics   That said  I do enjoy to working together with people that are bright enough to grok maths  Mastering complex and difficult stuff helps to get your brain into shape to solve complex and difficult programming problems

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Certian kinds of math I think are indispensible  For instance  every software engineer should know and understand De Morgan s laws  and O notation   Other kinds are just very useful  In simulation we often have to do a lot of physics modeling  If you are doing graphics work  you will often find yourself needing to write coordinate transformation algorithms  I ve had many other situations in my 20 year career where I needed to write up and solve simultanious linear equations to figure out what constants to put into an algorithm

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There are plenty of programming tasks that can be done well without a background in advanced math  It is probably safe to say the majority of programming jobs available will rarely require anything more than high school level math  But you are not going to write the software that helps put the shuttle in space by hacking away with your freshman college algebra math level  So  while advanced math is usually not vital to many programming tasks the more difficult problems will absolutely require it  Studying math also teaches valuable problem solving skills that can be used almost anywhere  I guess you could say it s not necessary most of the time  but it s certainly going to help almost all of the time

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If you find the subject fascinating enough to post this  just go ahead and start learning  The rest will come naturally

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The fundamental concept of maths is the following  devising  understanding  implementation  and use of algorithms   If you cannot do maths then it is because you cannot do these things  and if you cannot do these things then you cannot be an effective programmer   Common programming tasks might not need any specific mathematical knowledge  e g  you probably won t need vector algebra and calculus unless you re doing tasks like 3D graphics or physics simulations  for example   but the underlying skillsets are identical  and lack of ability in one domain will be matched by a corresponding lack of ability in the other domain

[math] Is mathematics necessary for programming?

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